Talks with Johnathan and Josh

Erock wrote:So hey, how is everything?

Regarding the custom coded enemies and your old work. I'm assuming that you have either lost this info or cannot find it? If so then this is really sad. You are the only one who was able to code a custom enemy and yet now the enemy and your work is most likely not going to be in any actual zelda hack.

If you do possibly have this info and code then I would really appreciate it if you could post it at zeldix or send it to me by email.

Thanks a bunch.

હેદρમ™ wrote:Your obsession for this game amazes me.

It almost rivals mine...wait...no....I 'm even more obsessed with it ma self!

Reshaper wrote:Hi Erock,

Sorry for not responding, I've been really busy lately. I believe I have lost most of the info. I found a few old uncommented ASM files but they're not in any state that would be useful to anyone. It's from years back and I'm not sure how any of it works anymore. So I can't begin to replicate what I did back then from what I have. But I'm still trying to make heads or tails of it, but I think I lost the bulk of my "sprite research" which was in an excel spreadsheet. I remember sending some of my stuff to MathOnNapkins at one point but it was well before I had made an actual sprite of my own. They were mainly some subroutines I had traced that remember eventually copying over into my own code so they could be customized without altering how "Native" enemies functioned in game.

Sorry, wish I could be more helpful.

Zack wrote:Reshaper256 recorded his progress as he developed the blue bot sprite. The 1st video shows a major landmark -- we were excited just to have creatures on the screen that look normal, cause damage, and can be killed. In the 2nd video, they can actually move around. Notice how they animate differently, depening on whether they're traveling or sitting still. The 3rd video shows that they're programmed to be aggressive. They don't just hop around anymore -- they attack! The 4th video shows that there's strength in numbers.

reshaper wrote:These videos have been up a while, but I'm sure some of you haven't seen them yet. There are four videos, and they should automatically play from one to the next, if you let them. This is my first test creating new sprites for Zelda 3, and it's taken me a long time to get even this far. I have to thank MathOnNapkins for all the documentation he's provided me with since I started seriously hacking. I also have to thank Josh Noullet for these bots' graphics, and GameMakr24 for inspiration and numerous brainstorming sessions. A few things to note from the start: I'm aware that they look incorrect when falling in a hole, and that the palletes are screwed up both when you hit them, and when they're frozen. I also know that their shadows don't need to overlap one another. I plan to fix all of these issues.

Video 1: This is honestly the most exciting video for me, although it might not be for you all. The highlight of the video is that the bots EXIST AT ALL. They sit there, they animate, they take damage, they can bump into the wall or freeze or burn or fall in a hole without the game's code derailing and crashing horribly. It was a wonderful moment.

Video 2: Of course, it's not enough to just sit there and wiggle. Bots should at least move on their own, so that's what I set out to accomplish next. It was a little harder than you might think to get them to move in short "bursts" instead of a constant velocity, but I believe it works out well, and matches the Zelda 2 bots.

Video 3: Now they jump! It's important that they have some sort of attack, right? They target Link's position before they jump, and if one of them jumps at you, the rest follow suit. I'm thinking on making them more likely to jump if you're nearer to them.

Video 4: No change in the bots from video three, but this one simply demonstrates that there is more danger in numbers.

Erock wrote:Okay so I still need to get some stuff out of my system including the rest of my rant about reshaper256 (johnathan)

So I've been emailing johnathan about getting that custom sprite code as well as his asm work on sprites so I can include it to the database we have at zeldix. I think johnanthan's work is important since nobody else has ever coded any custom sprites before like his.

Apparently the info and files are now lost and he can't or doesn't have them and I am just dumbfounded about this whole situation. If I was in charge of a hack and someone coded a custom sprite for my hack I would only think that I would at least have a copy of the sprite so I can insert into my own hack for my own personal testing. Like "hey, johnathan good work on that sprite now let me have a try killing those new enemies".

And then when you saw that Johnathan was quitting rom hacking of Zelda 3 you would think that you would say " hey man send me your resources so another asm hacker can pick up where you left off, I am the project manager after all ". but apparently we now have nothing. He did all this work and now we have nothing of it. This just makes my brain want to explode. I mean, why did Johnathan spend months and months of hard work on those sprites to then say "ohh boy I guess I better quit hacking now for no reason at all". This doesn't make any sense. Why did he not upload it on the internet or something. I never asked Johnathan for this because I always thought you had access to this asm stuff.

In regards to secrets, you have a overworld block/tile editing tool in excel and yet you have not released this to the public. May I ask why not? Just think if Fusoya (creator of Lunar Magic super mario world editor) just kept his program to himself? Then nobody else would be able to create a hack like his right? But what's the point to keeping things to yourself if it would benefit the community or other rom hackers? Do you not want to help fellow zelda 3 rom hackers? I like the idea of releasing a tool that I've made because then everyone knows that I'm a badass and can make such tools.

And now for the grand finale, aka your Quest for Calatia hack. Everyone at Zeldix as agreed that they don't believe that you will finish your hack. I'm serious about this. I say either reduce the size of your hack to only a few dungeons or join a team at zeldix. If you don't do either one of these then you are doomed and having a website promoting a doomed project is a dishonor to the people following the hack. Just think of the disappointment that your fans get when they realize that you have abandoned your own hack and you are not up to date and out of touch on the latest info at zeldix.

You had Josh Nullet do pixel artwork for your sprites and many of them look good, but his work is fruitless if they never show up in a completed project. Seph's hack is planned to be finished by the end of THIS YEAR. So this is my opinion on Josh's pixel artwork. If you want his work to not go to waste then you can donate his monster graphics to the Conker game. At least Josh Nullet and you will be able to see his work come alive in a real game. Even if you still decide to try and complete your game later it will be at least many years before you finish your hack so if some graphics of yours get released in Conker it really wouldn't matter or spoil your game because the time period that people will have to wait to play your game will be soooo long that they will have forgotten about playing the Conker game.

In fact I probably will ask Josh Nullet himself if he would like to see his work in Seph's Conker game and if he does will he donate it direct to me so I can put into the Conker hack. This way we get to see what the artist wants. Its his hard work after all and his work may not get a chance of being in another Zelda 3 hack for many years to come. Wouldn't you be pissed off if you drew all kinds of pixel art for a fan game and then the fan game never got released? What a waste of time and work.

I really appreciate the idea that you have that you want to complete your hack all by yourself and its great that you can make your own tools, but the reality is that making a hack by yourself is almost impossible and your updates and progress on your site show this. Again this is unfair to people following your hack. It is also in some ways selfish to keep your programs to yourself when others could be benefiting from them. You know how much of a pain it is to work with hyrule magic so if you can offer a better solution to how that program does things then why not share the love.

I would like to know what you think about all this.

Erock wrote:Hi Josh, I don't know if you know me or not, but I was part of Zack's Quest for Calatia Zelda 3 hack.

I started making things in Hyrule Magic for Zack back in 2009 and can you believe it or not, but I'm still designing things in Hyrule Magic now. That's many years for a fan game. But something has gone wrong with Zack's Zelda 3 hack and it has taken a wrong turn. Zack is simply too busy to work on the game anymore and because of this I had to join another group of Zelda 3 hackers. They are the same guys who made Parallel Worlds back in 2006.

So Seph is the guy in charge of the current big Zelda rom hack and believe it or not Link has been Conker the Squirrel. Seph's Zelda 3 is completely insane, but in a good way. You can check it out if you want if you sign up at www.zeldix.net, which is the current Zelda rom hacking scene.

So let me ask you a question. You have worked very hard on some pixel artwork for Zack's Zelda 3 hack, yet the sad truth is that your work may never see the light of day. If Zack does finish his hack it will be many more years from now. Seph's hack is planned to be finished by the end of this year. So if you do not want to see your pixel art go to waste then you can donate it to Seph's hack. This way you will see the fruit of your labor. This isn't anything against Zack's hack because he can also use your graphics that you provided to him later when he "finishes" his game. But the main reason why I'm contacting you ans asking you directly is because I don't want to see your work being wasted.

So if you have your Zelda 3 pixel art somewhere on your hard drive and want to see it in a Zelda hack then let me know here on facebook or come over to Zeldix and then we can show you the Conker hack and oh boy you will be amazed! Also if you want to provide more pixel artwork for Seph's hack then you are welcome to do that as well. We could use all the help we can get.

Anyway, thanks for reading and let me know your response in using your artwork.

Josh wrote:Hi Erock

I will definitely have to check out your stuff.

I personally would be more than happy for you to use the old pixel art. I have the file somewhere and I'll dig it out this evening when I get home.

But, let me just touch base with Zack too to make sure he doesn't mind.

I'll contact you back this evening.  I hope you have a great day.

Josh wrote:Hey man. Honestly, I am just waiting to hear back from him. He responded to my first email but not my second. I just want to give him the chance to respond.

I think it is fair to say his game is at a standstill though, yes. It's been over a decade since he started, I believe.

Erock wrote:Thanks for the response.

Here is my humble opinion. If you want to see those sprites in action and see your hard work come to life for real then it might just be now or never with them.

And yes, Zack's hack is like 10 years old, but that doesn't mean that it will ever get finished. The real reality is that its been sitting on his hard drive for 10 years collecting dust.

I honestly think that Zack will not approve, because I know him and he has a past history of not approving things.

I actually believed in Zack's hack so much that I was in denial about it ever getting finished. It took lots of other Zelda rom hackers to tell me over and over again that they do not believe that Zack will ever finish his hack. It's sad, I know, I sent him tons of dungeon designs thinking he would use them and they would be in his game. Good thing Seph likes my designs and hes using them instead.

I don't mean to pressure you to do anything, but I'm telling you from the bottom of my heart, just send me the graphics and I'll get them to Seph and I guarantee you that you will not regret it. Seph's game will be very popular and tons of players will see your artwork. It will be a very rewarding experience for you to see your work come into existence.

It doesn't even matter what Zack says. Just get the file, attach it to my email and close your eyes and hit the send button. It will be a wise choice. Otherwise you can most likely forget that you even made the artwork since its not going to happen in Zack's hack. I'm sorry, but this is the truth. The other Zelda hackers know how hard it is to complete one of these things and non of them believe in Zack's project.

Also please note that I'm not trying to manipulate you or anything, but only conveying the reality of the situation. I guarantee you that if you send me the file it will be you that will be thanking me in the end.

Here is my e-mail: erockbrox@yahoo.com

I will be expecting the files form you. Can't wait to see all those cool monsters. smile emoticon

Josh wrote:I'm probably going to send them soon, man. I really do just want to chat with him first. But, I do agree that he's probably not finishing his rom anytime in the foreseeable future, if ever.

I'm sorry, work's been keeping me super busy. I still need to read all of your IM's here fully (I kinda skimmed them). But, I wanted to get back to you

I'll be in touch as soon as possible.

SunGodPortal wrote:Coming on a little strong, Erock.

Erock wrote:Did you get a chance to talk to Zack?

Josh wrote:Yeah man, I did. And I'm sorry I've been MIA. I've actually been putting in a lot of hours at work and stuff and spending a lot of time at the ice rink (both me and my kid play hockey).

So, I apologize for not communicating sooner.

And, I wanted to go through all the stuff you sent me first. But, I sorta failed on that "To Do" list, y'know?

lol. I still plan to, though.

Anyways... basically, Zack asked that I not share the graphics 'cause he fully intends to use them.

Which is what you kinda predicted.

Erock wrote:yep I knew he didnt want to share lol

Josh wrote:I'm really thinking on it still and I'm still conversing with him on the subject.

josh wrote:He actually (come to find out) lives about 1.5 hours away from me and he's looking for work. So, I'm trying to see if I can meet up with him for some lunch or something (to talk about job opportunities in my area). And, I'm going to speak about this some more with him

josh wrote:I want to be respectful to him and his work (as he originally "commissioned" the work).

Maybe we can work out something like that, yeah.
I'll tell you what. I will come up with a better answer to all this before this coming Monday. That sound like a fair deadline?
I'm off work Friday and trying to work that out with him. If I do, great. If not, well.. Monday still.

Erock wrote:and in all honesty. i know zack wants to make this game, but he doing it solo
which is something that none of the other hackers do

josh wrote:Yeah, in all honesty, it does seem a bit far fetched that it'll ever get done.
I do agree
But... g'night man. I"ll be in touch.

Erock wrote:The other zelda 3 hackers all team up and they have told me that doing this hack alone is a disaster.

so maybe he will finish the game when he retires or maybe his kids will finish it, but doing it all alone is crazy and he refuses to collaborate with other hackers.
Also its important that you get some type of closure on your work. You probably waited 10 years since you drew those graphics right?
Also big thanks for doing all this man. Good night

Quest for Calatia is NOT happening. Zack has a wife and kids to support and is working like 2 jobs to provide for them. There is no way in hell his game will ever get made.

So in conclusion if the artwork doesn't get donated to the Conker hack then the artwork is simply a waste since it will never be in any finalized game.

It's either donated to the Conker hack or the artwork is never to be seen or used ever.